with all the stuff happening in Australia, I almost forgot these were this week also :)
Will be good to see what Manaudou can do...
Florent or Laure? Do not forget the little brother, he may upset some. Laure will probably clinch a spot in backstroke. I believe that Muffat deserves more attention and credit. She has been posting stellar times this season and may finally break through on the biggest stage.
You're right to highlight Muffat, but I'd argue that had a breakthrough in Shanghai. She came away with bronze in both the 200m and 400m Freestyles and in both races she missed out on two silver medals by just a combined 0.11 seconds.
And she was totally pissing off by this (I happened to be in France during the WC and hear her comments after the race). She wants more and certainly has the potential to get it. I am wondering if she had a complete taper for this meet as neither Balmy nor Etienne seem capable to put a strong enough challenge for her.
A French lady chucking a tantie. I am shocked.
I jusy like reading the names. Tres chic.Regarding Manadou - how do you ever get over that episode? A flaunt too far.
I see Mark Gangloff and Tyler McGill in them (+ the usual Dutch ladies). Why did they pick up the French trials instead of the Bristish ones ?
Disappointing first day! Rouault and Duboscq (and with him any hope of a good medley relay) are out of the Games, Manaudou and Bousquet slower than last year on the 50 fly, Agnel chickening out of the 400... Leveaux had a good 50 fly, he may have a good 100 free waiting to come out this week.
The 100 breaststroke final hasn't happened yet. Did Duboscq have to meet a semifinal qualification time to make it? If so, French Swimming is idiotic.
In the French "Programme" page you can see qualification times to be met to go to London. Breaststroke was 1.00.79 in semifinal. My understanding is Duboscq is out. But I see that Dublincat below has another opinion. (Strangely enough the cut off times are indicated only for Sunday. Nothing for the other days).French swimming has been frequently idiotic before (Agnel and Gilot if I recall correctly couldn't swim at the Euros in 2010 because they did not meet heat or semi cut times). The trend is likely to continue.
Here is the cut and paste. Temps de qualification sounds like qualification time for the Olympics.Temps de Qualification Olympique 400m 4N messieurs : 4.16.46» 18h01 - 400 4 Nages M. Finale B» 18h07 - 400 4 Nages M. Finale ATemps de Qualification Olympique 100m papillon dames : 58.70» 18h14 - 100 Papillon D. 1/2 Finale (1)» 18h17 - 100 Papillon D. 1/2 Finale (2)Cérémonie protocolaire du 400m 4N messieurs» 18h24 - 50 Papillon M. Finale B» 18h26 - 50 Papillon M. Finale ATemps de Qualification Olympique 400m NL messieurs : 3.48.92» 18h29 - 400 Nage Libre M. Finale B» 18h35 - 400 Nage Libre M. Finale ACérémonie protocolaire du 50m papillon messieursTemps de Qualification Olympique 400m 4N dames : 4.41.75» 18h46 - 400 4 Nages D. Finale B» 18h53 - 400 4 Nages D. Finale ACérémonie protocolaire du 400m NL messieursTemps de Qualification Olympique 100m brasse messieurs : 1.00.79» 19h06 - 100 Brasse M. 1/2 Finale (1)» 19h08 - 100 Brasse M. 1/2 Finale (2)
OK I have found the criteria here http://www.ffnatation.fr/html/dossiers/350.pdf(page 5 and after)If I understand correctly:Women 200, 400, 800 and 200 bk Men 50, 100, 200, 400, 100 bk 2 are selected provided they meet a target time in final (there is a table attached)Women 100, 100 Br, 100 Fly, 200 IM, 400 IMMen 1500, 200 bk, 100 br2 are selected provided target times are met in semis and finalfor the remaining target times must be met in heats, semis and finalReading the table that follows for the 100 br the target times in semi and final are 1.01.51 and 1.00.79. Hence Duboscq is still out, Perez is still in and the qualification times displayed in the "Programme" are the one for the final and not for the semis.Then (this is page 7) come the relays. France can pick 6 male and 2 female swimmers, not individually qualified, for the relays. Hence (As Dublincat wrote) the first 2 male swimmers of each 100 will be considered for selection provided they meet a "TSO" time. ( I cannot find a table with these TSOs but assume they are the FINA A or B cuts)
Oh my goodness... what is with the convoluted criteria?What's the point of all this?There has to be some logic to it, otherwise they wouldn't have even gone there.
I think, France wants to ensure that their swimmer is capable to reach the time needed to qualify in heats and semis. Some swimmers can't get the time they needed to qualify in the morning heat. They need evening semis/finals to get the fast time.In Nationals (even in the Australia trials), they can make "pedestrian" time in heats and still qualify to the semis/finals, which is not gonna happen in Olympics, and make them not qualify to next round.
I think it's silly.Professional swimmers and should be capable of raising their game when needed.For example, Stephanie Rice swam 2:18 in the 200 IM heats, but does anyone believe she will do the same in the Olympics?
I see both your points tomoseorang and aswimfan.I've thought that too about the Aussie trials. The swimmers should learn to swim fast in every race because the competition is harder at the Olympics, however, for experienced racers like Rice for example, why get her to push so hard now through trials?It seems unnecessary.
duboscq can still go to london if he finish in the 2 first place in the final because the 2 first place of the 100 breast , 100 fly , 100 free , 100 back men and women goes to london in order to swim the 400 medley relay if no body make the olympic cut in these races .
So, these trials are the only chance of qualification?Was anyone pre-selected?
after the first day, overall the results have been underwhelming.Is this the only olympics selection meet for the french or will there be another one?
On the other hand the 400IMs, and the 100fly are not traditionally strong events for the french. The casualties were hardpressed for making finals anyways. I think Roualt's time made the B cut, not sure what they would mean though.Anways, Its nice to see Perez under 1:01, he's quite young and it'll be nice to see him take over from Dubosq. THe 100m Breast is an event with many elderly men.
why on earth is Stravius not swimming the individual 200m free? He's a potential finalist!!
I guess he figures it would hurt his 100 back. They'd better still put him on the relay.
if he qualify individualy : he is eligible for any relay
Camille Muffat - 4:01.13!Split 58.37 / 1:59.34 / 3:00.84 / 4:01.13. Amazing stamina to come home in 60.3 after going out so hard.4th fastest all-time. Unequivocally the fastest ever in textile.Incroyable!
Amazing! so far this meet has been a combination of very good races, like Muffat's and the men's 200 free (4 under 1:48 in the semi without Stravius), and abysmally bad, like the men's 100 breaststroke.
@ Muffat, what on earth happened to not being tapered? This swim is even more surprising than the two James' earlier today! It was surprising I thought it was a typo. I had felt that Muffat had stuck around 403low for a while that another large drop like this would be unlikely. It now appears that there are 3 women who are capable of dipping to the high 4:00s and whoever is ready to do it will probably take home the Gold. Based on the quality of the best swims they've done, the medal order may actually go 1. Muffat 2.Adlington 3. Pelligrini. What a shock that would be.Forget what I said about Palmer possibly matching Muffat yesterday, from what we've seen she'll need someone to screw up to have a shot.Additionally, look for for textile record from Muffat in the 200free also. If she can drop 2.1 seconds in the 400free, the big question is if she can drop 1 second into the 154.9s. I doubt she'd be able to win this event, but Pellegrini must be pissed everyone is deciding to step up Olympic year. SHe's been quite fortunate this event hasn't really sped up from 07 in textile terms.
I agree.We'd all expected James to pop a 47 low (although Robert's 47.6 was more surprising), but who woulda thought Muffat to blaze a 4:01 in this trials?I hope Muffat can bring it to London. You never know, with the temperament that these french ladies normally showed.
Muffat - cool . That cuts out almost everyone except Pellegrini.
Woah there. I don't think it rules out Rebecca Adlington. 4:02.35 this year and has been faster than Muffa's time in a LZR.
Additionally, keep an eye out for people that have popped good times, and then didn't do much for a period of time. By this, I'm talking about Katie Hoff, Chloe Sutton and Kate Ziegler. Hoff has been 403, and if her missed taper disguised good training form, its not impossible that natural progress has her at 402. Same could be said about Sutton and Ziegler.Lastly, the girl on my look out list is Shao YiWen. In reality probably only 1 of these girls will pose so much as a ripple in London, but that's the game we're playing I suppose.
All these are possibilities but 4.01 is the mark . Seems to me you have to attack it aiming for that time now & the tipping point has been reached.
Swimmers on the up have surpassed their LZR times -or they were not aided by them to the greater extent. Muffet has bettered them as has Palmer . Others will manage it this year -maybe Rebecca also.
Hmmm... yeah, as excited as I was to see what Laure M could do... the french are never short of surprises, are they?I wonder then, if Pelligrini really is ahead of the world... and the world is catching up... what is she capable of today? I wouldn't be surprised to see her take it faster.Very exciting.
Two massive swims in the space of 5 minutes.Firstly Camille Muffat in the 200m Free semi - 1:55.40.Then the men's 200m Free. Agnel swims 1:44.42, 0.02 faster than Lochte's winning time in Shanghai. He's followed by Leveaux 1:46.72, Mallet 1:46.77 and Lefert 1:46.90.... with Stravius still to be added to the relay!
And Laure Manaudou follows 10 minutes later! 1:00.16 wins the 100m Back.
umm..... what on earth happened to stravius? 54.10? He either really missed his taper or really underestimated Strasulius. Very disappointing swim from him. The French just flopped a potential medalist.Yea, I felt that this kind of swim was coming from Agnel. He did not have a great WC, and I felt the 144.99 was a product of his will not his athletic capacity. He has a good shot of going 143 in London -- watch out Phelps and Lochte.
If Stravius a) makes the team b) returns to the form he was last yearThis team is going to be 7:01 in London. Watch out China and the US
Yep... that was written before Stravius' 100m Back. With only the 100m Free left for him, it looks like he won't make the team, which I think is a huge loss for France. Even with their strong results today, his 1:45.40 leg from Shanghai would be useful on any team.
Apparently, Stravius can still make the team (only on the relay) if the French Federation decides to take more than 4 swimmers for the 4*200 relay. I really hope they would do so because I don't think that the other performers (except for Agnel of course) are able to do a 1'45"40 in London.
I still like Stravius's chances in the 400 free relay, meaning he can also swim the 800 if he gets on the team. Two relay only spots are allowed per relay. If Gilot and Meynard take the 100 spots, and Agnel, Leveaux, Bousquet (in the 50), Lefert, and Mallet are already accounted for, and with the second 50 spot potentially Bernard's, Stravius could easily slip in there.
Concerning Stravius' participation if I understand the French document above he can be considered if he managed to swim less than 1:47.82 (Olympic Qualifying Time, I am assuming this is the TSO of the French document) in one the FINA official qualification meets.Les championnats de France 2012 de DunkerqueLes championnats du monde 2011 de ShanghaiLes Universiades 2011 de ShenzhenLes championnats du monde Juniors 2011 de LimaLes championnats d’Europe Juniors 2011 de BelgradeLes championnats de France 2011 de StrasbourgL’Open EDF 2011 de ParisLes championnats de France Jeunes 2011 de DijonLe meeting international 2012 de NancyNo idea if this is the case (He swam must faster in Shanghai but only in the 800)
He went 1:47.45 in EDF 2011 according to the Swimnews rankings. So, technically, he can be picked
I can't help be think that Agnel could be 402 or faster in the 400m if he had wanted to pursue it. His progression curve is very similar to Thorpe'sL 346low, followed by 343.8 at trials the next year (Ian followed it up with a 341.8 later and a 341.3 the next year). We're missing out on an individual who, could definitely challenge Park and Sun, maybe not this year, but in the not too distant future.You've got to wonder what type of 100m performance he must be ready to deliver to forsake such greatness. He is one of the most talented swimmers in the last decade.http://www.rtl.fr/actualites/sport/article/natation-chpts-de-france-le-sprint-du-100-m-nage-libre-des-mercredi-7745730312some interesting French insight into Magnussen's swim. Including Jeremy Stravius and Bernard's coach, Denis Augin describing Magnussen's swim as an earthquake in Dunkirk and the swim beeing "untouchable" for now.Also, judging by Stravius' 100back time, I doubt his chances at a sub49 in the 100free. I'm not sure how this works, but if Agnel and Meynard win the individual, followed by Gilot, Leveaux, Bernard,Mallet, Manadou and Stravius 8th. Does the fact that Leveaux and Mallet already being selected for the 4x2, mean that Stravius could still be chosen as one of 4 for the 4x1?
As I understand it, only 2 relay only swimmers (per relay) can be selected, so if he Agnel gets top 2 in the hundred in your scenario Stravius has no chance (unless he qualifies in fly). If he does lose to Manadou, he would need Gilot, Meynard, Bernard, and Bousquet to all qualify individually. If Lefert gets the 7 spot instead, I think (I could be completely wrong here) that he would only need three of those guys to get individual berths.
Also, Stravius makes it sound like he underperformed due to pressure, and not that he is in bad form.
impressive night for France.
I am worried about France's relay prospects without William Meynard....
The French 100m squad are definitely faster than last year, but it seems that everyone was scared to go out for it. Gilot was the fastest one out, but was still only 22.99. Magnussen won a huge psychological victory here.Advantage: Australia
Everyone is not scared to go out.Magnussen screwed them over and planted this idea that you have to go out a bit slower to come back strong.
The results are out and it's not looking good for french sprinter in 100 free men.
Winning time is 48.02 by Agnel and the rest of the fields were lingering into middle and upper for 48.
I think we saw Australia set an unprecedented standard in terms of times swum at trials. To the extent where the top four added times is faster than any trials ever in history, minus France in 2009 (It still baffles me how they lost that relay, they must've had a 3second adv going in, and couldve chopped a second off the WR).I think its only because what we saw in Australia that these times swum today were "subpar". The times that were swum today were1) significantly faster than last year's result. Last year, Gilot won in essentially the same time he swam today. Meynard and Agnel followed with 48.5highs and Bernard was being his usual inconsistent self. The aggregate top 4 times is about half a second faster than last year's.2) significantly faster than Australia was at their trials last year. Magnussen won last year in 48.29 and was followed by 3 48.6 and 48.7. On paper, that team was slightly weaker than France going into Shanghai. And it deservedly would've been the case had Bernard performed to his potential. The French relay was definitely capable of a time around 310.7 last year.Any who, where does this put the current team France. I think we're going to see major improvements from at least Agnel (stronger than Meynard '11) and Leveaux (probably as good or better than Stravius '11). Gilot is a consistent relay swimmer, and Lefert, although untested, is probably a wiser choice than Bernard. Let's hope he can continue to drop time. My view is that, although this team is stronger than France '11 WC, without Stravius and Meynard (2 very reliable, young, backhalf swimmers), this team is a ) not going to have backup if the top 4 fails in health, b) not going to be the best team France can assemble.Because of all these reasons, I can still see this team drop to 3:10low, and under the best case scenario match Team Australia if Australia swam the relay today, but I highly doubt this team can win.
What do you mean by best case scenario, Cate Campbell substitutes for Eamon Sullivan ?
By best case scenario, I mean Team France when fully tapered could match Team Australia if they had swum the relay with the team members that produced this past week at their current preparation.
Team France were not fully tapered for their trials when they had such stringent and convoluted heats, semis and final qualifying times and such great depth in the mens sprint?So Alain Bernard though he could have won a individual spot in the team not fully tapered? ditto with Agnel, Bosquet, Maynard, etc?Somehow I don't buy it.Even Magnussen who is so much more dominant was fully tapered for Oz trials.
I don't buy it as well. All were tapered
Alright, What I meant is that they weren't in peak form. From their trials to WC last summer, Meynard dropped almost 0.6 of a second, Bernard dropped about 0.3, Gilot dropped 0.2(he probably was in shape for a bigger one), Stravius too... etcObviously, they were "tapered" for the meet, but swimmers reserve certain training for the lead up to the Olympics. If they had that extra "everything" for these trials, there would be no way they could hold form for the Olympics. Thats the advantage of having trials so early. This extra training is different for each swimmer, depending on their strengths. IE. Magnussen is going to improve his front end speed in the next 4 months, and we'll most likely see him drop time-- As we will see from the French. That is what I mean.
oh ok.That makes much more sense.Yes, some (maybe most) swimmers from countries with early trials (AUS, GBR, FRA) will get faster come summer/london, however, some WILL inexplicably be slower.Example:Last year, ALL AUS men's sprinters were faster (in relays) in Shanghai than in their trials. So if the France sprinters can get faster in London, wouldn't that also apply to Australian swimmers as well?However, there are also swimmers who usually swam slower in the summer. inexplicably.And many of them are women middle distance. Last year, Barrat, Palmer, Adlington, Muffat, Carlin, etc were faster in the 400 at earlier meets. They all swam slower in Shanghai.Interesting, right?
That was my point,I know that the Aussies should improve between now and the Olympics, and judging from where France is now, even with the expected improvements in the next 4 months, I think the best time they coudl put together would be a time the Aussie team could post this minute.Therefore, I dont think France will win this year.THe w400free was weird last year, there were so many underwhelming swims in that race. The opportunity was funny open for a dark horse like Palmer or even Friis to step up, but that did not happen.Also an issue is the time the race takes place in the program. At World Championships, the 400IM is usually relatively slow because its at the end of the program and its not uncommon for people to post slower times than earlier in the year.
The beneficiary of w400 IM in Shanghai was Beisel. The other contenders such as Rice, Miley and Shiwen already swam few races before (with Rice even swimming 200 fly!).Beisel I think either only sewam that 400 Im or 200 back before.This time around Rice won't be swimming 200 fly, but she might swim 4x200 free.
stravius will be going to london to swim the 800 free relay and meynard will be in the 400 free relay . that is good news
That is smart of the French selectors.